| George
Lutz
An Exclusive Interview with the Man Who Lived at
112 Ocean Avenue. By Louise Bohmer.
It has been called the most famous of American
Hauntings. The Amityville Horror. The story has sold over 6 million books
with 13 reprints, and the movie grossed 86 million at the box office. Here
now is an interview with George Lutz, the man who lived in the house at 112
Ocean Avenue.
Bohmer: What were your views on paranormal phenomenon
before your experience at 112 Ocean Avenue?
Lutz: I considered myself as much a skeptic about
most such things .........as anyone else might be. One way to put it would
be that unless I personally had experienced such things.(paranormal phenomena),
I had no basis to either believe or not believe in such events. I do know
that trying to describe my views, in any interview, would not be as complete
a discussion as I would wish possible, because I believe that we all have
some experiences that we are reluctant to talk about publicly and it is in
exchange of these experiences that we all learn.
We had no reason to suspect that there was any reason
to be wary of the history the house had up to the time of moving in, yet
we were concerned about our children's opinions. We spent time as a family
deciding if we all agreed that we wanted to live there. When a unanimous
decision was reached, then we went forward with the purchase.
Bohmer: Do you feel that the heart attack Steve
Kaplan (one of the original perpetrators of the 'Amityville Horror Hoax"
myth) and the heart attack Jay Anson (author of, The Amityville Horror: A
True Story) suffered were mere coincidences, or were somehow connected to
the paranormal phenomenon that occurred in the Ocean Avenue house?
Lutz: Kaplan was a "vampireologist" and self proclaimed
parapsychologist that never was involved in any investigation of the phenomena
we experienced. We denied him access to our property when our own research
(a few phone calls to the university he said he taught at and Duke University's
paranormal research group founded by Dr. Rhine) failed to confirm any of
his so called qualifications as a serious, credentialed researcher. He lied
and misrepresented himself to me personally and to the press. When he was
exposed, out he went on a "mission" to spend the rest of his life trying
to make a name for himself in another way ........as an author of a book
that purports to expose our story as a hoax. It was a waste of life for him
and has only served to leave his family as well as his memory scarred by
a fools errand and a legacy of ridicule for himself and his wife.
His exclusion from the investigation was based on
the unanimous recommendations of the qualified experts we were able to assemble,
and I have never regretted asking for their recommendations or my decision.
In order that anyone be able to come to a reasoned conclusion about the
controversy he sought to create , one must also become aware of his efforts
to become notorious. Any review the work he produced reveals the motivation
behind it. His anger at being refused entry was clearly the driving purpose
of his book and the only way he could associate himself into the case was
by declaring it a hoax.......it was effective enough to get him noticed until
his lack of credentials became his own undoing. One example of this was referring
to himself as "Dr. Kaplan", yet his degree was paper only and purchased from
a nonexistent school that was not accredited and did not require his
attendance.
He did serve a purpose that has always been more
important to the story than was ever understood at the time. ........He continued
to make the public aware of the story and helped to get us all thinking and
talking about such phenomena, and to come to our own conclusions about such
things.
With that brief summary of Steve Kaplan's non-
involvement with my family, we can now try to discuss your question about
coincidences and connections.
It is easy to blame "the house" on events that have
befallen those involved with it in one way or another. The threads of
"coincidence" do seem to support undeniable links that make for great drama
and supposition. It is just as easy to pull some quote from the bible like
2Peter2 and lay it all on the offender....in this case, Kaplan.....and ......it
is almost as easy to just dismiss such an idea with a feign at ignorance
and humor.........
Although I prefer the humor to all else, - the idea-
of the question itself ....is just too serious for me personally to laugh
away........I have seen too much these last 28 years to do that.......the
fact that Kaplan died as soon as his "book" was finished.......can lead to
the idea that his "job" was done and he was no longer useful to the evil
that supported his task . This is probably as valid an explanation as the
fact that his addiction to cocaine finally caught up to him. His apparent
anger at his exclusion and subsequent ridicule coupled with a complete disregard
for the truth, however, lead me to the conclusion at the time of his death
that the "coincidences" surrounding the Amityville Horror are not always
so easy to explain away or even understand for ourselves. I never once believed
he had any conception of what he was dealing with and he certainly did not
have the personal depth to explain or expose nything but his own
corruption.
He physically died of congestive heart
failure.....................although in my opinion he had died to himself
years and years before this.
Bohmer: Do you feel that the heart attack Jay Anson
(author of, The Amityville Horror: A True Story)suffered was a mere coincidence,
or was somehow connected to the paranormal phenomenon that occurred in the
Ocean Avenue house?
Lutz: This is a difficult question about my own
feelings and not just because the feelings are private to me but also because
over the years they have changed in some respects. The simple answer is yes
I do feel there was or is a connection. I am not willing to discuss or explore
this further at this time.
Bohmer: After you fled the house, did you experience
any other odd occurrences? Or, was that the end of the frightening
events?
After you fled the house, did you experience any
other odd occurrences?
Lutz: Yes we did experience "odd occurrences" and
these continued for years. I tried to look on it as having a kind of half
life in that as time went on, these occurred less frequently.
Years later we were asked to take lie detector tests,
and one of the questions was about the time we levitated at my mother in
laws house after we abandoned the Amityville house. Kathy and I had experienced
this together and wanted that particular question on the tests.
Was that the end of the frightening events?
No it was not the end of such events, however the
danger here is blaming everything that goes wrong in ones life on evil. You
cannot do that and really learn anything worthwhile. You cannot function
in this world if your paranoia overwhelms your sensibilities. The real problems
are discernment and patience....... and the impediment to beginning to learn
how to endure is a lack of patience. I had a lot to learn about all this....
and still do work on this daily!
There did eventually come a time that the word
frightening did not have the same meaning or strength as it once had for
us. Faith was the only tool that undid the power that had inserted itself
upon us. It has been said that Faith is the substance of things not seen.....I
believe this to be a partial truth because I have also seen faith do and
move and change things and act and create .....so at least for me faith is
and has been so much more than just "believing"...it has also been expecting
and even knowing at times.
Bohmer: Ed and Lorraine Warren (prominent demonologists
and psychic investigators) investigated the occurrences at the Ocean Avenue
house, after you and your family left. They came to the conclusion that a
demonic force was haunting the home. But what do you believe caused the terror
in your home for those 28 days? Do you agree with the conclusion of it being
the result of demonic forces or inhuman spirits? But what do you believe
caused the terror in your home for those 28 days?
Lutz: I am asked to lecture on this occasionally
and always the elusive nature of such phenomena is the interest of so many
people from all walks of life. You must first try to understand that the
easy answer........."demonic forces or inhuman spirits" IS the answer, yet
this is not a complete enough answer for you or me to help us to understand
or learn anything of real value from just that for an answer..........more
important to any understanding would be a catalog of observations, feelings,
individual event descriptions containing as much detail as can be recalled
and then a collation of all these for an examination of the effects of these
events upon the individuals involved.
Once you start this process, you learn that common
duplicate perspectives are at best, elusive. Each person involved will have
a unique experience, and it is this singular and separate perspective that
is difficult to define even to each other ....communication becomes
excruciating....even if two or more, have a seemingly simultaneous
experience..this compounds easily enough in "normal waking life" yet apparently
accelerates in a psychic environment...this charged event will not create
duplicate memories...and the effects of the event will be both personal and
dissimilar......add to his description another "given" that begin to let
you know just how difficult any accurate conclusion will become for
you..........The "given" is a complete lack of knowledge, experience, vocabulary
and tools or solutions...........and then a form of despair leads you to
fear your own thoughts. You fear what others will think of you and you become
very alone and separate. You begin to know that you do not know. Confusion
now has grip you need real help to become free of.
Confusion is said to be the absence of God’s
presence and I promise you that confusion is only the beginning of what you
are inundated with, once the process of being in the presence of true evil
starts.
Bohmer: Do you agree with the conclusion of it being
the result of demonic forces or inhuman spirits?
Lutz: I have come to believe that what was there
was multi faceted and multi talented ..........it was angry as a really obnoxious
spoiled child might be when we wanted it to leave..........it had the ability
to affect the lives of all it came into contact with.... it was deceitful
and charming.........humorless and territorial.........intelligent and
powerful..........yet in all that it also was threatened by the introduction
of the religious or faith....it was vengeful at exposure and worked to create
confusion and fed off of anger, guilt and greed and certainly fear........when
exposed to love or truth it retreats only to wait for an opportunity to take
revenge .........I learned that you do not ask someone to risk their own
life to clear a property of such an entity........you can instead walk away
and try to start over.
Bohmer: Has anyone who has lived in the house since
your family's departure experienced paranormal phenomenon of this same
threatening level?
Lutz: Since we no longer live there, much of what
I would answer here might easily be construed as rumor, yet divorce and money
problems have continued to plague subsequent owners, (as they did prior to
us) some have lost family and some have yelled about how awfully sad they
are that their house has been maligned in some manner. There are pictures
that have no reasonable explanation.......... why an arm suddenly becomes
transparent......or a figure or figures appearing in windows at times and
there was a story about a death from a fall off a ladder and another by drug
overdose. I am told there are police reports as well, but have not seen
them.
You asked also..."of this same threatening
level?"
I have no way to know of this being the case here.
I believe you are not a threat to this kind of phenomena if you do not believe
in it and do not want to expose or displace it somehow..........that is not
to say it will not choose to use you in some way if it finds you convenient
or more to the point...or..it finds you interesting.
Bohmer: Do you think you'll ever write a book telling
your own truly personalized account of the terrifying occurrences you and
your family experienced, during your stay at the Ocean Avenue home? Or, is
the process of reliving those events, in order to chronicle them in print,
to traumatizing for you to ever consider?
Lutz: I am currently working on a picture book of
the way we left the house..........pictures taken during the investigation
on March 6, 1976.........when that is finished, we will have an indication
of the need or desire on the publics part for an idea similar to your
question
We have often believed that the therapy is in the
retelling...........you get over and past something like this by facing it
and dealing with it............yet to describe the process is to usually
be found wanting for a better way of communicating the difficulties one
encounters...........through the years the reliving has become less severe
......that is to say that there are still some buttons that can be reached
and cause for alarm because of the intensity of the experience.........sometimes
it is momentary and passes quickly.........but I learned in an interview
only a couple of years ago that if the right person asks the right question..(
at the right time I suppose as well)..a whole flood of emotion can revive
itself and .as you say......the trauma of reliving can still rear its ugly
head........I have had to learn to be wary of the process, yet embrace it
as well since it has been much more relieving than reliving.
Bohmer: After experiencing such a terrifying paranormal
phenomenon, have you been contacted by, or helped, others who've been through
a similar supernatural occurrence?
Lutz: Yes to both parts of your question. I do not
speak of these in public because they are confidential.
Bohmer: Hans Holzer (professor of paranormal psychology,
author of many occult books) also visited 112 Ocean Avenue, in 1977, with
a medium. The medium claimed the malevolent haunting was the result of the
ghost of an angry Indian Chief, who refuses to leave the house until it is
destroyed. Do you think there is any truth to this medium's claim?
Lutz: The medium, Ethel Johnson Meyers, is known
to be both gifted and honest. I personally do not have any reason to doubt
that the recounting of what she experienced was..for her... invalid in any
way. Not all psychics will
access all areas of information or sources of phenomena
available at ANY site in one single visit....or even series of visits.........so
while her investigation could never be deemed to be complete........it should
certainly not be discounted either ..........It probably would be more accurate
to say that this was part of the whole.......another facet of the forces
within that were available to touched or learned about and described ...that
day...under the conditions present. I have learned that even under the best
conditions, when you try to investigate, understand, and describe this kind
of malevolent force, real truth will be so elusive, it may never be possible
to "map" its abilities and purpose.......let alone its
characteristics.........human terms do not always apply.
Bohmer: How did these traumatizing events affect
your life in later years? Were you terrified this might happen to you again
when you purchased another home?
Lutz: I am sorry but this question probably requires
a book for an answer........and even then it would undoubtedly be inadequate
and incomplete.........I cannot even do a ...."suffice it to say............"
in any reasonable length or series of paragraphs and then feel I have somehow
said what all would need to be at least touched upon........One way to describe
this would be that it is still a process I am learning from and learning
about.
We experienced something I would wish on no one
ever for any reason.
The fact that this is not as rare as you and I might
want to believe it is ......does not change anything. These things happen
and for the most part people will not try to explain them because of the
notoriety that sets you apart. The fear of ridicule has never been an issue
for me because I understand at least some of the ignorance that accompanies
the need to ridicule. My fear is that I will leave out the message that will
help someone that truly is in need. My fear is that I will not communicate
the serious nature of these kinds of events in a way that is both respectful
of the reader and the material itself. I dislike the fact that I cannot meet
with those that are truly interested in such phenomena in person and at least
have a chance to impart what little I have gleaned from all this so that
their own quest for knowledge is helped somehow. I have to admit a selfish
part to this as well.........I usually learn from others in ways that take
me years to start to comprehend and I value that learning in large
ways.
I was leading a quiet life repairing old cars and
doing my own studies on the subject of this interview when the internet came
along. For the most part I was in private life and rarely spoke of the past
to all but my closest friends. The internet brought with it a mentality that
you can say what you want and you do not have to be responsible for
it..........because you are anonymous......... I went back to school to learn
about computers.........to build them and repair them and then to protect
them ......and finally learn computer forensics because the internet also
brought a viciousness to some people.
I have had some fears to deal with.........I still
am not too happy with heights. I have learned allot about what motivates
people..........I have seen what we call the "amityville bug" infect people
with greed and meanness beyond comprehension..........and I have been most
fortunate in ways that have nothing to do with material wealth or fame of
some kind. I do not think it is the events themselves that continue to affect
you .........I think it is how you come to handle their memory.....this probably
has more to do with what you want out of life than you have ever tried to
explain for and to yourself. I had to learn some very hard lessons along
the way these last 30 years or so.........but who has not?.....I think the
effect you are looking for in your question applies to everyone....Shattered
dreams are not so easily rebuilt because the hurt has too long a lingering
sensation....unless you decide it aint much of a life without some more
dreams.....being truly terrified distorts your reality in a way that alienates
you from almost everyone else...unless you decide to work to change the
perspective that you had created.......I still continue to take people at
their word and extend them trust that I should let them earn first...........but
for me I am most fortunate in that I have a few people I know are my friends
because if I had a body to bury.......they would bring their own shovel to
help with.
Bohmer: Were you terrified this might happen to
you again when you purchased another home?
Lutz: Not so terrified as concerned.........terrified
implies an extreme and I do not think we were terrified that this might happen
again..... because we had so much help....real help that put some very important
basics into our personal belief systems ....concerned however
implies.......caution......and we certainly tried to be careful........we
ruled out even looking at any properties where someone had died......no matter
what the cause........for the longest time new houses were our
preference.
Bohmer: Do you feel the catalyst for the threatening
paranormal phenomenon could've been the blessing Father Pecararo performed
on the home, perhaps aggravating or stirring the negative force that inhabited
the house and grounds? Do you think the force would have manifested itself
as aggressively if the blessing had not taken place?
Lutz: YES.
Bohmer: Do you think the force would have manifested
itself as aggressively if the blessing had not taken place?
Lutz: I do believe it would have been more
subtle.........in less of a hurry.......it would have allowed us years to
erode our values for each other and the basic rules of life......In one sense
it would know no other way to be other than aggressive...it is the very nature
within it that compels such behavior.........but it would have relished the
"game" of our undoing and pleasured itself along the way by feasting upon
the fears and confusion it would have helped to create. Our emotions would
have fed it a great deal of energy and entertainment.
BUT............the blessing did take place and no
matter what anyone or anything else may think......the blessing "took" and
continues to grant us each a form of grace with each new day.........of this
I am certain and on this I continue to depend and expect and
dream.
Thank you for this exclusive interview, Mr. Lutz.
It's been a pleasure.
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